Conversations

I'd recommend Kubota or Massey Ferguson.

I notice that today (12/30) on Modesto craigslist is a Massey Ferguson 275 (72hp) tractor with new engine, new clutch, new tires, 'professionally restored' (according to ad) asking $8500. I would check it out carefully, but that's a tractor that would do everything you need, except cultivating, without running you deep into debt.

One other thought: don't forget to leave half of your equipment budget for implements. Chisel plow, perfecta, bed shaper, flail mower, cultivating sled--these things add up.

If I were starting from scratch I would look for a 200 series Massey Ferguson (240,255,265) with a Perkins diesel; these tractors are bulletproof. To that I would add a Farmall cultivating tractor (Super A, 100, 140).(Avoid the later Farmall 265 with a really unfortunate Nissan diesel). No bucket.

Why just one tractor? I have 5 tractors on a one-man farm, which makes work more efficient. A Kubota 245H cultivating tractor for cultivating, Kubota 3450 for tillage, Kubota MX 4700 for mowing in the orchards, and two Massey-Ferguson 35's gas, one for pulling a trailer, the other for miscellaneous. The MF cost $1500 for one, $2800 for the other, both in excellent condition. My total cost for all 5 tractors was less than $30K. The expected useful life of a smaller tractor (less than 60hp) is 6,000 hours--there are lots of older tractors around with plenty of life left for low prices. I don't have a loader--never saw any need for one. I use a rear scoop ('Super Pan') for spreading compost.

One person commented that he thought 60inch beds might be too wide. I would second that. I use 48 inch beds (the old tobacco standard) and have had no difficulty getting equipment set up for that

Why just one tractor? I have 5 tractors on a one-man farm, which makes work more efficient. A Kubota 245H cultivating tractor for cultivating, Kubota 3450 for tillage, Kubota MX 4700 for mowing in the orchards, and two Massey-Ferguson 35's gas, one for pulling a trailer, the other for miscellaneous. The MF cost $1500 for one, $2800 for the other, both in excellent condition. My total cost for all 5 tractors was less than $30K. The expected useful life of a smaller tractor (less than 60hp) is 6,000 hours--there are lots of older tractors around with plenty of life left for low prices. I don't have a loader--never saw any need for one. I use a rear scoop ('Super Pan') for spreading compost.

One person commented that he thought 60inch beds might be too wide. I would second that. I use 48 inch beds (the old tobacco standard) and have had no difficulty getting equipment set up for that width. An alternative is to go to 40 inch beds with a tractor tread width of 80 inches--this is the standard in Salinas Valley.

In terms of buying a used tractor, I think the optimum value point is a tractor with 1000 hours on the clock at about 60% of the cost new. They're out there; it just takes patience to find one.

Dears All,

Trust me I am farmer from Botswana and been using Massey Ferguson Models (old versions), trust me I am no joking, but I found these working even in case of some failure in them, these tractors are manual operated and does not contain technology monopolies, believe me that my other fellows from Gaborone are very much satisfied and looking to purchase more.

I would suggest all friends to check their Botswana tractor website

I swear I am not a Kubota sales rep, and I've never actually seen a 7060 up close, but the online specs say that both the front and rear wheel spacing on the 4wd model can be set at 60 inches. http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/007/4/2/7423-kubota-m7060-dimensions.html

This turned into a great thread with lots of farmers posting...I guess it takes tractor talk in December to get the FR forums humming.

The reason everyone likes Kubotas is because they are still built the old way, to last. Little or no electronics, no computers, simple hydraulic systems, bombproof engines, and components and parts that are easy to replace and relatively inexpensive.

Hello David. Finding one tractor to do everything is, not so easy, but that's what I'm doing. First off, what are you trying to accomplish with the tractor? Ok, you've explained a bunch already; you always have to go back to that thought. My very first thought is, will you NEED a bucket on this tractor? Because once an old school style bucket is connected to a tractor, you can't take it off in a jiffy.

Right now you are talking about newer tractors,...and that, in my opinion, is a mistake. You will end up spending A LOT of money when you could have spent less and gotten more. Old tractors were not built to die, like cars, they are solid. They have things like carbuerators, oil air filters, and clutches, and ignition points....which may seem like disadvantages until you have to replace a part and realize that the parts to replace your tractor are CHEAP CHEAP in comparison to the new fangled

Hello David. Finding one tractor to do everything is, not so easy, but that's what I'm doing. First off, what are you trying to accomplish with the tractor? Ok, you've explained a bunch already; you always have to go back to that thought. My very first thought is, will you NEED a bucket on this tractor? Because once an old school style bucket is connected to a tractor, you can't take it off in a jiffy.

Right now you are talking about newer tractors,...and that, in my opinion, is a mistake. You will end up spending A LOT of money when you could have spent less and gotten more. Old tractors were not built to die, like cars, they are solid. They have things like carbuerators, oil air filters, and clutches, and ignition points....which may seem like disadvantages until you have to replace a part and realize that the parts to replace your tractor are CHEAP CHEAP in comparison to the new fangled contraptions.

I farm about 3 - 4 acres of vegetable crop land and manage another 2 acres. My one and only tractor is a 1964 Massey Fergusson 65. It has 49HP, remote hyrdraulics, loaded tires, 2wd, and WIDE reaching axle extention capabilities with a robust gear reduction. The tractor had only 1500 hours on it ! when I got it because it was always used as a secondary tool, and parked in a dark dry barn. I paid $4,800 for it, then paid $650 to have it towed 2 hours to my farm. I later spent maybe 2 or $300, going through the tractor and replacing a few oil seals and parts and fluids. It runs like brand new. I can also get any part for that tractor, THIS IS KEY. Only certain brands of tractors can you do this with. There are a lot of massey and ford parts out there for old tractors, John deere too, but some old tractor companies are no longer in business and weren't popular....so don't buy one of those.

Back to my tractor, I extended the wheels ALL the way out (including flipping the hubs around), so that my tractor now STRADDLES 6 feet. Which translates to either one six foot bed (squash), or two 3 foot beds (everything else). I then bought a NEW chisel plow for $1700 from Buckeye tractor company, a new eight foot wide WOODS disk harrow for $2000, and a rusty old 7 foot wide cultivator for $400 which I cleaned up and repainted and invested another $300 to $400 to include new sweeps and 2 disk hillers for hilling potatoes. I also bought a double furrowing tool for about $400 which I use to both seed and dig potato and root crops, but can also be used to create a mean raised bed.

Primary tillage is done with the chisel plow and the disks. I was initially thinking spader, just like you are talking.....and I am a real stubborn sun of a, but you know more and more people kept telling me the reality of a spader is a nightmare. Apparently it can be quite hard to find parts for, they break often, they are hard to find and when you do, expensive, and VERY VERY slow. You think that this is not a problem, but, if you every want to do anything other than break even or loose money every year....it IS. The finish the chisel plow leaves is chunky....and if you want to turn in cover crop, you will likely need to go over is a few times....now, here is the interesting part about that...if you keep hitting a spot with the spader, you WILL end up inverting the soil, which is what you were trying to avoid. So, anyway you will need a set of disks....so, why not forgo the spader for a set of disks then?

All of you attachments should span the width of what is between the legs of your tractor....in my case, I don't really ever need to drive on my beds (after chisel plowing). My 7 foot wide cultivator will weed out either one or two rows. One day I have it set for all my 6' rows, the next I move sweeps around to the pattern which cultivates my rows spaced at 3' on center...it takes only a few minutes to do this with an impact gun and a socket. Since my cultivator is behind me (not ideal), I can't get quite as close to my plants as I would like sometimes (a back up camera install has been one idea to help with this for an investment of $80 - 120). I stare at the end of the row and drive straight, and found it is easier to drive quickly (ironically)...so I end up cultivating say, two 100' rows (3' on center), in approximately 60 seconds.

Depending on the crop, I may need to go back and do some hoeing, this is typical.

So, I hope you are seeing my point....it is about how much you can do for an amount of money. In my case, I can efficiently manage a farm with half the amount of money you were considering to drop on ONE tractor.

You likely DO NOT NEED 4WD! Maybe you do. But, why ? Each of my loaded tires weighs about 500 lbs....I could also get wheel weights if I wanted, making them even heavier.....I only ever slip RARELY when I am pulling my 3 shank chisel plow which calls for 15HP per shank! This happens when I snag something hard and usually the spring in the chisel plow snaps back and I'm free again without stopping and adjusting the depth. Maybe you are thinking speed? If so, you might be impressed to see how creepy my tractor can get in the lowest gear...but then, if you realize that spading is not a wise investment afterall, you won't need to go that slow on the regular (or maybe ever) anyway.

Food for thought. I hope this helps. My final parting words would be....financially, its far in your favor to spend money on a mechanic to help you maintain and prepare an old tractor then it is to buy a new one, and deal with the costs of repairing that and those parts. A 50 hp hydrostatic tractor is $20,000 - $50,000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!! How many years of maintenance on my tractor will I get for that same price?....a lifetime (no exaggeration).

Finally, now that you see what I'm saying. If you really need a tractor with, say a bucket,....going this route you really could think about buying two tractors. Again, if you need to, pay a mechanic to get it all set up and inform you of your maintenance tasks...you will be so far ahead of the game. Age means nothing, maintenance is everything.

Ok, hope this helps. Good luck!

Paul's absolutely correct, Kubota is best tractor out there these days.

I suggest you rethink your bed spacing. 60" would be great I suppose but you'll also have to lean over those beds more. Isn't your back sore enough?

We went with Dolk tractor in Rio Vista and got an L3901 with hst for $18 k without a bucket. That would have put us at $23k had we gone for it. Our tractor had 91 hours on it when we bought it. We also took advantage of Kubota's financing which was$0 down, 0 interest for 5 years. Hard to beat.

We use a spader for secondary tillage like turning beds over but it's way too slow for primary tillage. And we are only working 2.5 acres. We're looking for a small offset disc for primary tillage to complete our tractor implements. It's never really complete though, is it? We have a toolbar for hilling up that also doubles as an inline cultivator, and we have a bed shaper. We can still do three lines of lettuce, spinach, beets, carrots, turnips, etc., and two

I suggest you rethink your bed spacing. 60" would be great I suppose but you'll also have to lean over those beds more. Isn't your back sore enough?

We went with Dolk tractor in Rio Vista and got an L3901 with hst for $18 k without a bucket. That would have put us at $23k had we gone for it. Our tractor had 91 hours on it when we bought it. We also took advantage of Kubota's financing which was$0 down, 0 interest for 5 years. Hard to beat.

We use a spader for secondary tillage like turning beds over but it's way too slow for primary tillage. And we are only working 2.5 acres. We're looking for a small offset disc for primary tillage to complete our tractor implements. It's never really complete though, is it? We have a toolbar for hilling up that also doubles as an inline cultivator, and we have a bed shaper. We can still do three lines of lettuce, spinach, beets, carrots, turnips, etc., and two lines of bigger brassicas, chard, peppers and eggplant. However next year I'm going to be skipping beds (maybe summer cover cropping those) because with season long solanums, there was just no space for crates or even legs and feet.

Perhaps not ideal, but definitely take heed the warning about used tractors unless you're already a tractor mechanic.

Good luck.

Hi Gentlemen,

All very helpful, thank you.

I would love a Kubota. The problem is that Kubota doesn't make a compact (or semi compact tractor) 4wd tractor that can do 60" spacing. I wish they did. You're into some large tractors by the time Kubota can do 60" spacing.

So despite the warnings, I think we are leaning toward a John Deere 5055E with 4wd, 13.6" rears, @ 60" spacing, loader, for 30k? I think we can manage with the .9mph low gear speed.

Big Valley Tractor, Stockton... 7060HD 4wd with HST, 426 hours for $26,540. That ad is from September, I haven't picked up an issue of Ag Source lately. Same tractor. I didn't see that you needed a loader though; you are not going to get that in a rental return tractor. You would have to buy it as an ad-on, which would probably cost you $8K or so depending on whether you went with an aftermarket brand or not.

John Deere tractors are high-maintenance with lots of bells and whistles that are impossible to fix without patented JD tools and equipment...I'm not going to spend lots of time bashing them here but Kubotas are a better choice for a tractor under 100 h.p. I started using Kubotas 25 years ago and all my neighbors laughed at me; now almost no one around here uses anything else for their smaller tractor needs.

Hey David

Pauls comments would be duplicated by a number of farmers I think: brand, tire size, horsepower Etc

This tractor on your scale could make for a very efficient program.

The perfect tractor, the ideal tillage tool, least passes, pristine seedbed. The combination is elusive. I think there are more proponents of more passes with tools of various depths than there are spader users. I think the Paul is more concerned about engine wear than time, the extra passes with other tools would be at a

more kind RPM.

I will utter an evil word here, rototiller, but Roterra might be better. It is the overuse of the tiller that creates problems I think. Using that only when absolutely necessary, and a chisel/ roller/perfecta mixed tool most other times for primary tillage has been shown to work. Tradeoffs surely abound. Soil structure, microbe disruption, etc. And these would have to be actively countered.... Read More

Hey David

Pauls comments would be duplicated by a number of farmers I think: brand, tire size, horsepower Etc

This tractor on your scale could make for a very efficient program.

The perfect tractor, the ideal tillage tool, least passes, pristine seedbed. The combination is elusive. I think there are more proponents of more passes with tools of various depths than there are spader users. I think the Paul is more concerned about engine wear than time, the extra passes with other tools would be at a

more kind RPM.

I will utter an evil word here, rototiller, but Roterra might be better. It is the overuse of the tiller that creates problems I think. Using that only when absolutely necessary, and a chisel/ roller/perfecta mixed tool most other times for primary tillage has been shown to work. Tradeoffs surely abound. Soil structure, microbe disruption, etc. And these would have to be actively countered.

Trying to treat the soil like a garden but on a farm scale: equally challenging as finding that right tractor

The hope I think is that over time with proper soil management, cover cropping, microbial encouragement; diligent weed control, OM improvement, you will need less passes or less invasive passes over the beds.

I hope you find that rental return!!

Thanks for the helpful advice, Paul.

Q's:

What other tillage solutions are you referring to exactly? Chisel plow + perfecta type of process? Our scale is so small, we're more worried about passes and tilth than time spent spading.

What's wrong with John Deere?

Rental return M7060 with HST under $30k? We must be thinking of different tractors.

Definitely get a Kubota. It will save you time and money on repairs and maintenance. Kubotas also usually have creep gears or something approximating it. Check the Ag Source magazine on line, you should be able to find a rental return tractor somewhere south of Stockton. It will cost you $800 to get it to Sonoma, but it will cost $2000 less than it would in Norcal. I have bought several from Pioneer Equipment, but there are other companies down there too.

There is no reason on earth to buy a new tractor. You can get financing (around 1%) on a rental return with 500-750 hours on it and at your scale, it will probably take you three years to put another 500 hours on it. New tractors are for farmers who are going to use them 24/7/365. A rental return 7060 or something similar will cost you less than $30K.

I know you think you need 13" tires, but you don't really. I have an M9000 with 14.9s in

Definitely get a Kubota. It will save you time and money on repairs and maintenance. Kubotas also usually have creep gears or something approximating it. Check the Ag Source magazine on line, you should be able to find a rental return tractor somewhere south of Stockton. It will cost you $800 to get it to Sonoma, but it will cost $2000 less than it would in Norcal. I have bought several from Pioneer Equipment, but there are other companies down there too.

There is no reason on earth to buy a new tractor. You can get financing (around 1%) on a rental return with 500-750 hours on it and at your scale, it will probably take you three years to put another 500 hours on it. New tractors are for farmers who are going to use them 24/7/365. A rental return 7060 or something similar will cost you less than $30K.

I know you think you need 13" tires, but you don't really. I have an M9000 with 14.9s in the back that we use to plant and cultivate 60" beds with no problems. You just need to make sure the tires are the right shape, with square sidewalls. Even the low profile Kubotas often have more clearance under the belly than a regular utility model John Deere.

Lastly, I'm just gonna throw in my two cents about spaders...don't do it. You will spend hundreds of hours barely moving on your tractor with the engine blazing. There are other small scale tillage solutions that are faster and less fossil fuel and maintenance intensive. I'm sure the spader folks will jump to defend their favorite tool, but make sure you get a second opinion.